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Thread: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

  1. #11
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    Thanks for inviting me to join in Linda. I couldn't access the chat during the hangout yesterday so I didn't know you were there!

    Let's start with this:

    " I just don't know how I could assume that about a business that I don't work with was hit by it when I can't view their Webmaster Tools and match up the traffic drop with the algorithm updates..."

    One thing that you can do is take a look at semrush.com for your competitors. Here is an example of a site that was hit by Penguin in April of 2012 and then after we did a really thorough cleanup and disavow for the site made a good recovery in October of 2013. (You rarely see a complete recovery as many of the original rankings were held on the power of unnatural links):




    Name:  penguin-hit-and-recover-semrush.png
Views: 159
Size:  55.3 KB



    So, can a Penguin hit site appear in the local pack and rank well? Yes, I have seen it happen. John Mueller from Google has said that the Penguin algorithm runs completely separate from local ranking algorithms. With that being said, I have seen Penguin hit sites drop out of the local algorithms at the same time as being hit with Penguin. My theory is that some of their local rankings may have been propped up by citations from directories that Penguin devalued.

    Also, in some cases, I have seen sites that fell in local rankings because they did a far too aggressive disavow and disavowed a bunch of directories that were actually good citations.

    Did Pigeon change any of this? That I am not sure of. I don't think I have enough data to make any conclusions. I have to admit that although I am quite comfortable explaining Penguin, Pigeon still baffles me.

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  2. Members who thanked Marie Haynes for this post:

    Linda Buquet (09-12-2014),Phil Rozek (09-13-2014)

  3. #12
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    @ Joshua: First, thanks for your insight Joshua. Scottsdale is its own city as well as Peoria , Litchfield Park, & Glendale. Since Pigeon, the pack has changed 3 times. Searching Orthodontist Phoenix is now only bringing in a 3 pack.

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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie Haynes View Post
    Thanks for inviting me to join in Linda. I couldn't access the chat during the hangout yesterday so I didn't know you were there!

    Let's start with this:

    " I just don't know how I could assume that about a business that I don't work with was hit by it when I can't view their Webmaster Tools and match up the traffic drop with the algorithm updates..."

    One thing that you can do is take a look at semrush.com for your competitors. Here is an example of a site that was hit by Penguin in April of 2012 and then after we did a really thorough cleanup and disavow for the site made a good recovery in October of 2013. (You rarely see a complete recovery as many of the original rankings were held on the power of unnatural links):




    Name:  penguin-hit-and-recover-semrush.png
Views: 159
Size:  55.3 KB



    So, can a Penguin hit site appear in the local pack and rank well? Yes, I have seen it happen. John Mueller from Google has said that the Penguin algorithm runs completely separate from local ranking algorithms. With that being said, I have seen Penguin hit sites drop out of the local algorithms at the same time as being hit with Penguin. My theory is that some of their local rankings may have been propped up by citations from directories that Penguin devalued.

    Also, in some cases, I have seen sites that fell in local rankings because they did a far too aggressive disavow and disavowed a bunch of directories that were actually good citations.

    Did Pigeon change any of this? That I am not sure of. I don't think I have enough data to make any conclusions. I have to admit that although I am quite comfortable explaining Penguin, Pigeon still baffles me.

    Great insight Marie!

    I would add that about backlinks to local as well. Backlinks, as Linda has mentioned (by mentioning organic ranking factors) tend to drive, in my opinion, the majority of the ranking in local packs. If Penguin pops some of your links, you lose the power of those links as you mentioned and that affects local as well.

    I don't believe Pigeon changed any of this. The buffer for local existed before Pigeon and still exists like this today. The reason it has gotten so much attention is now everyone is evaluating the SERPS due to Pigeon. It was happening beforehand but no one was really checking too hard into SERPS because we all felt relatively comfortable with how the ranking worked.

    Now? With Pigeon, we're all uncomfortable again so now we're doing tons of research and preexisting issue are coming to the surface.

    No doubt some of the issues we've discovered are new but some are old as well, just now being discovered for the first time.
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    Local Listing Ninja - Business Listing Service

  5. #14
    Linda Buquet's Avatar
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie Haynes View Post
    One thing that you can do is take a look at semrush.com for your competitors. Here is an example of a site that was hit by Penguin in April of 2012 and then after we did a really thorough cleanup and disavow for the site made a good recovery in October of 2013. (You rarely see a complete recovery as many of the original rankings were held on the power of unnatural links):




    Name:  penguin-hit-and-recover-semrush.png
Views: 159
Size:  55.3 KB



    So, can a Penguin hit site appear in the local pack and rank well? Yes, I have seen it happen. John Mueller from Google has said that the Penguin algorithm runs completely separate from local ranking algorithms. With that being said, I have seen Penguin hit sites drop out of the local algorithms at the same time as being hit with Penguin. My theory is that some of their local rankings may have been propped up by citations from directories that Penguin devalued.

    Also, in some cases, I have seen sites that fell in local rankings because they did a far too aggressive disavow and disavowed a bunch of directories that were actually good citations.

    Did Pigeon change any of this? That I am not sure of. I don't think I have enough data to make any conclusions. I have to admit that although I am quite comfortable explaining Penguin, Pigeon still baffles me.
    Sorry Marie I was out most of day and missed your post.

    VERY insightful! Thanks so much for sharing that - it helps a lot. I was just looking at a site I was suspecting got hit by Pigeon because it used to rank A. Then dropped out of site. Then with Pigeon it's back in the pack but not ranking in organic. So just checked with SEMrush (great tip) but I don't really know all the Penguin dates and how to read what I'm seeing. Anyway it's not a client or anything, just a SERP I watch to try to reverse engineer - which is an exercise similar to banging your head against the wall since Pigeon. After awhile it hurts - so you just have to stop doing it!

    Anyway, really appreciate you stopping by to share that. Really beneficial!
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    You're very welcome Linda. In regards to the dates, the Moz algo dates page is a good place to start:

    Google Algorithm Change History - Moz

    For just the Penguin dates, I made this quick cheat sheet as there are not too many to remember:

    Penguin dates - When did the algorithm update?

    Panda dates are a bit tougher as Google no longer announces them.
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  7. #16
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    Awesome, thanks so much Marie!
    Is Our Content HELPFUL? Please pay the community back by sharing!

    LocalSearchForumLinda Buquet .:. Google Local Specialist

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    Note: Due to mulitple RSI injuries, pardon short replies. Typos? Blame it on "Dragon". ;-)

  8. #17
    Linda Buquet's Avatar
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    Re: Google Pigeon Forgives Penguin Penalties???

    See new post and new example with some theories here:

    Ranking #1 in the Google Local 7 Pack - Even Though Organic Penalty
    Is Our Content HELPFUL? Please pay the community back by sharing!

    LocalSearchForumLinda Buquet .:. Google Local Specialist

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    Don't Miss Important News & Tips! SUBSCRIBE to Daily Email Digest Here

    Are you a PRO? Join the "Local Search Pros" G+ Community!

    Note: Due to mulitple RSI injuries, pardon short replies. Typos? Blame it on "Dragon". ;-)

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