Moving the "A" in NAP - Process & Pricing

Don Berthiaume

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Jul 18, 2012
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Hey everyone!

My apologies for being a bit MIA from the forum but being a one-man-band and the wearer of many hats and with Local not being my one and only service offering, I've sort of been off tending to other aspects of services I offer.

Thought I might throw this into the ring, in this new forum and discuss process and pricing.

I have a client who [after 16 years] has just moved their brick and mortar store about 3 miles from their old location ref prior thread Question on Business Moved or Relocated. The phone number and city have remained the same. So we need to go through the process of "closing" their old listing, creating a new one and then dealing with all of the old citations. (some 62,500 when searching using "address" "phone")

As far as the process, let me get a but more specific for this particular client. Not only has the business moved, ownership has also changed but in reality, I feel I am still working with an 'existing listing' in the eyes of Google since the company name and phone number have not changed.

Here is the process as I see it

1) Delete claimed listing from previous owner's Google Places account. (This was never merged with Google+ Local so I'm not thinking I need to do anything further on that front)
a) I'm assuming I would simply "remove this listing from the previous owner' google places account" as opposed to "remove this listing from google maps"​
2) Within Google Maps, I'm not sure if I simply need to change the address or close the business per Andrew's comment

Within-the-city moves are up to you to just moving the marker and not closing the feature and adding a new one; going outside the city requires a closure/new feature.
in this thread UHGGG. Client moved to new location- Now Google maps to residential neighborhood

3) Create a new listing for the new location using the new owner's Google account
a) I'm assuming this is still done at Google Places
b) In using the current phone number to begin the process I assume any "existing listings or duplicates with that same phone number" will be shown but I will not select those and continue with the process.
c) I will then proceed to add new listing and await verication card, etc.​
4) In the meantime, I guess I could create a Google+ Local account, create the public profile and await the opportunity to merge it with the newly created / verified business listing?
5) Begin the process of updating online citations - which will take quite some time...
a) Take the suggestion of a few of you in the forum ref Tackling Local Citations - Where To Start?

As far as pricing, while I do other type of work for them, website updates, email broadcasts, etc. I am looking ot be able to create a "package" and price it accordingly. I know many of you offer similar services and I respect you wanting to perhaps not wanting to share your specific pricing so ranges would also be appreciated. I'm assuming a sample pricing structure might include an up front setup fee to close out and recreate the google accounts, then an ongoing monthly fee dealing specifically with cleaning up the citations? Or maybe trying to tackle the primary citation places at a set dollar amount per listing?

Given the extent of the number of citations they have out there with their old address / phone number, does anyone have any insight or suggestions on what else could be done?

My other thought is to simply outsource the effort to someone here in the group.
 

Linda Buquet

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Jun 28, 2012
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Great post Don! And catchy title!

Thanks for taking the time to write it and add all the details. I hope the incoming answers will help you and other members as well.

I only have a second right now, but one thought I had about the citations would be to just get a quote from Nyag or Darren at Whitespark for doing the citations. Then markup their price 300% to the client PLUS add more on top of that. Because I don't think you can hire someone to do a citation blast that is necessarily going to clean up ALL the citations, so you'll likely still have more work to do after they are done.

But as far as the bigger picture package pricing, I'm not sure but hope some members will chime in with their thoughts. Plus I'm off to Tweet this now to try to get others to weigh in.
 

Don Berthiaume

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Jul 18, 2012
Messages
80
I only have a second right now, but one thought I had about the citations would be to just get a quote from Nyag or Darren at Whitespark for doing the citations. Then markup their price 300% to the client PLUS add more on top of that. Because I don't think you can hire someone to do a citation blast that is necessarily going to clean up ALL the citations, so you'll likely still have more work to do after they are done.
Thanks Linda!
 

Colan Nielsen

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Jul 19, 2012
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3,274
Hi Don,

How come you are creating a new listing when the city, phone number, and business name will remain the same?

Andrew's quote was "Within-the-city moves are up to you to just moving the marker and not closing the feature and adding a new one; going outside the city requires a closure/new feature"

Is there a particular factor that pushed you in that direction?

 

Don Berthiaume

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Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
80
Hi Colan

The store has moved [or in Google speak - closed] at one location / address and has relocated / opened at another - about 3 miles from the old one.

Unlike in GP, where we need to "close" the business to move it, I just found it curious that in Maps, all we apparently need to do, within-the-city moves is to simply change the address and marker. Was just trying to confirm / get clarification on this in my process.
 

Colan Nielsen

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Jul 19, 2012
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I'll try not to drive this any further off course because you have some other interesting and important inquiries in your original post.

I take several things into consideration when deciding whether or not to create a new listing or just update the existing listing. Usually, if the listing already ranks well, and the move is within the same city and the phone number remains untouched then I will update the existing listing. Especially if the business name doesn't have to be changed.

Your case is a tad more complex since you have the added factor of having to re-claim the listing in a new account anyway.
 

sergiuliano

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Oct 15, 2012
Messages
107
Or you can use a service as Localeze and make your life easier You would be able to change all citations at once from one admin panel without all this hassle.
 

Linda Buquet

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
13,308
Hi Don,

How come you are creating a new listing when the city, phone number, and business name will remain the same?

Andrew's quote was "Within-the-city moves are up to you to just moving the marker and not closing the feature and adding a new one; going outside the city requires a closure/new feature"

Is there a particular factor that pushed you in that direction?
I just found the comment from Andrew that Colan referenced. It's here:
UHGGG. Client moved to new location- Now Google maps to residential neighborhood

To be sure incorrect info is not spreading, I decided to ask Jade for confirmation that this info is correct in the G+ L world WE live in. Because while I don't think Andrew's info is wrong, I think it's coming from the mapping side of the house, for instance when they find a feature or map marker that's in the wrong place, they should just move it or edit if in same city, per these guidelines. Delete a Place - Map Maker Help

However Jade has always said if a business MOVES best practice is close and open new listing. She's never made an exception, if the move is in same city - which MOST that I see come up ARE! So I think the difference is with a 'feature' (in the mapping world) if it's wrong, move it. But with a business, there are citations at the old address and the inherent data problems that will come up when the algo keeps trying to revert back to the old address.

So anyway, just sent all this to her to ask for clarification to see if it's POSSIBLY OK to edit instead of close/restart if the move is in the same town. But I have a feeling her advice is still going to be that it's best to close/open. If not, I'll be a little disappointed that little distinction was never made clear because most moves are in same town and we may have been told to give out advice that was not totally correct.
 

Don Berthiaume

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Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
80
I'll try not to drive this any further off course because you have some other interesting and important inquiries in your original post.

I take several things into consideration when deciding whether or not to create a new listing or just update the existing listing. Usually, if the listing already ranks well, and the move is within the same city and the phone number remains untouched then I will update the existing listing. Especially if the business name doesn't have to be changed.

Your case is a tad more complex since you have the added factor of having to re-claim the listing in a new account anyway.
I actually checked into the possibility of "switching accounts" but that's also a no-go for Google.

Transfer your listing between Google Places accounts - Places for business Help

A messy one indeed.

@sergiuliano certainly services like Localeze are available but the entire task seems so daunting. One of my BIGGEST concerns is trying to come up with a dollar amount as to what all of this is going to cost, not to mention how long they can anticipate things taking before they start seeing light at the end of the tunnel.

Services like Yext are also there but I'm not convinced the cons outweigh the pros for this "annual fee" / service. From what I've read, they might include an updated listing...but they do not check for existing dupes.

Will most definitely be checking in with Nyag and Darren for possible solutions and / or recommendations.
 

Colan Nielsen

Administrator
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Messages
3,274
So anyway, just sent all this to her to ask for clarification to see if it's POSSIBLY OK to edit instead of close/restart if the move is in the same town. But I have a feeling her advice is still going to be that it's best to close/open. If not, I'll be a little disappointed that little distinction was never made clear because most moves are in same town and we may have been told to give out advice that was not totally correct.
Thanks Linda! It would be amazing if Google could map out an official procedure for this situation in our world of Google Places.
 

Linda Buquet

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
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Ya we've been asking. Not only is there NOTHING that mentions this anywhere in the help docs where the average SMB can find it. But when TCs advise it in the G forum there are no docs to back us up or help explain it. So it would be easy to question if they should even take our advice.
 
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I just found the comment from Andrew that Colan referenced. It's here:
UHGGG. Client moved to new location- Now Google maps to residential neighborhood

To be sure incorrect info is not spreading, I decided to ask Jade for confirmation that this info is correct in the G+ L world WE live in. Because while I don't think Andrew's info is wrong, I think it's coming from the mapping side of the house, for instance when they find a feature or map marker that's in the wrong place, they should just move it or edit if in same city, per these guidelines. Delete a Place - Map Maker Help

However Jade has always said if a business MOVES best practice is close and open new listing. She's never made an exception, if the move is in same city - which MOST that I see come up ARE! So I think the difference is with a 'feature' (in the mapping world) if it's wrong, move it. But with a business, there are citations at the old address and the inherent data problems that will come up when the algo keeps trying to revert back to the old address.

So anyway, just sent all this to her to ask for clarification to see if it's POSSIBLY OK to edit instead of close/restart if the move is in the same town. But I have a feeling her advice is still going to be that it's best to close/open. If not, I'll be a little disappointed that little distinction was never made clear because most moves are in same town and we may have been told to give out advice that was not totally correct.
Linda, it looks like they added a second bullet point in reference to a feature being deleted/doesnt exist when it moves within a city:

If the correct location is within the city limits, move the marker to its exact location instead of deleting the feature.
I could swear the info from the GMM guideline is new as I don't remember seeing it when I looked when posting in the other thread. I know they've been updating the guidelines with the recent UI changes.

Regarding not having a clear direction from Google usually points to a data management problem or an internal policy the RER Guides and Community Managers can't talk about. (at least you still can communicate with someone at Google. Its been over a month for me and others getting any contact from our Guides.)

You would think it wouldn't be too hard to for the Bots to find an address change within a city. Which is likely why the policy comes from the "mapping" side of the house. I'd be interested in getting a reasoning for the policy distinction as well as a better mechanism for ensuring reviews migrate (or saying that they won't).
 

Don Berthiaume

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Jul 18, 2012
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Colan... chuckling here on that one. I actually had envisioned, when considering this post, how nice it would be to have a section in this forum entitled "Best Way To...."

There is a TON of information available in this Local Search forum [..and I cannot thank you enough Linda for keeping it up to date as humanly possible], yet despite the amount of information contained in this entire forum on this subject, or perhaps any subject, all of the information is scattered here and there between threads. We have a gold mine here, we really do. I'm just wondering how, instead of the wealth of information we have within its veins, how we can channel it to the mother load of "Best Way To..." section.

My hope, with this post, was to maybe sew the seeds for this "how to" section...or perhaps a "wiki" of sorts that provided the process to accomplish something based upon our collective knowledge, experience and best practice. Yes, Google has her directions and instructions but obviously that might not be enough....

Best way to claim a listing
Best way to list an address
Best way to ...

And, along those lines, somewhere in the forum is a thread that discusses how there are countless threads or questions asked that discuss the same topic. The search function works...I am constantly using it, looking for threads that might contain information on what I might be trying to find out...but only if the correct search terms are used.

Is there a way, some way, that we could channel all of this information into a "mother load" how-to section?

Certainly, this is a thread unto itself. Linda...perhaps you could branch it off for us?
 

Linda Buquet

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Messages
13,308
Don, all really good ideas.

At my other forum we have a few things that attempt to organize and bubble up to the top, the most important info. So I'll think about what we could incorporate here.

It's a growth problem, which is a GOOD problem to have. When the forum was new it was easy to categorize and find things but now there is such an amazing amount of important info flowing in from the members every day it's getting harder and harder to stay on top of it all.

The problems is there is SO much info and SO many opinions and everything changes SO frequently, it's just really a challenge to figure out the best way to manage all the info.

But at least here most of the important info is all in one place and pretty easy to search.

Before the Local Search Forum info was MUCH more scattered with bits and pieces all over from various blogs, etc.

Thanks for the suggestions and ya I might break off or copy your post above into a new thread where we can just discuss ideas like this to make info more meaningful, useful and discoverable.

THANKS for the insights and for bringing this up Don!
 

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